Honesty

by Bob Thune

I figured out today that honesty is an elusive concept. Most of the time, what I THINK is honesty is not honesty at all.

My mind is always forming judgments about people. Always. I think that’s just how we work. In a room full of people, I’m forming mental categories: that’s the flirty girl, there’s the geeky guy, over there is the kid who talks too much. Most of these judgments I keep to myself, because I reason that they would be hurtful or injurious to these people. After all, lots of the stuff I think is sinful and self-centered. My judgments about people are often a way of keeping myself in the ‘lifeboat’ and sizing up who I’d throw overboard first. Recognizing my own sinfulness in this area, I conclude that honesty is not necessarily the best policy.

But I’m changing my mind. I think that real honesty would be cool. It would also mean that people know everything I think about them. Everything.

Some people I’ve run this idea by today have disagreed with me. They’ve said, “Well, it’s not edifying to tell people everything you think,” or, “People can’t always handle that sort of honesty,” or, “You’d have issues with everyone all the time.” It seems that there’s great social pressure against total honesty.

But think about how much easier life would be. There would be no mental calculations going on in the back of your head while you were talking to someone. No wondering whether this person could “handle the truth.” No trying to remember what’s OK to talk about and what’s not.

This week I was having a conversation with someone and she asked me whether I was telling her everything. And my mental response was, “Well, NO… but you couldn’t handle everything. It would make you upset and angry and frustrated at me.” So I told her, “Yep, that’s everything.” You might think I’m a freak, but we all do this all the time. If you think you don’t, I dare you to go up to the geeky kid and tell him what you REALLY think about his penchant for role-playing games or his 80’s wardrobe. The only reason you don’t is because such honesty wouldn’t serve a purpose.

Or would it? I think the purpose it would serve would be freedom. That’s what Jesus said: “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” When I’m holding back my own mental judgments – however sinful they may be – I’m not free. I can’t say what I really think, which means people don’t know the real me. (And I don’t want them to, because they probably wouldn’t like me.)

But I think in an ideal community – one centered around the gospel of Jesus – real honesty just might be possible. Because if people really got their identity from Jesus and his crazy and unrealistic grace and love, they wouldn’t care what I think about them, and they’d see me through eyes of grace too. My honesty, no matter how hard or sinful or ugly, could never undo the honesty of God pouring his love into them at the core of their being. I think that’s the kind of community Jesus intended us to have; I’m just not sure we’re ready to believe the gospel radically enough and do the hard work it takes to create it.

The interns who work with me had a big spat this week. It took them a whole day of honesty to undo months of not-honesty. I made them talk things through until everything was out on the table. And they said some hard and painful things to each other. And the funny thing is: there’s much deeper community in our office now. I wonder: could community always be this good if we spoke the real truth all the time?

Comments

[kendal]

Bob,

I absolutely love your writing, and you are way smarter than I am. Having said that I don't see the whole picture here, and maybe you can further describe what you mean. Surely Christ's death was to purchase our freedom, and how amazing it can be to walk in that freedom. But it it seems like you are misusing that verse to some degree. You appear to use "honesty" and "truth" interchangably in your article. Honesty certainly seeks to defend the truth, but they aren't the same thing. We should strive towards the ideal Christian life and community, all the while realizing that it won't come this side of Heaven. My thoughts aren't complete, but I welcome your reply. Thanks.

Kendal

[Nigel]

Thune,

So when Jesus was hanging out with all of the outcasts of society, do you think He was witholding what He "really" thought about them?
Isn't it funny that the only people He pissed off were those who thought they were the s. I'm really glad He didn't pick the people on campus who showed the most potential. It gives a glimmer of hope to the normal people.
Thanks for the great articles...

[d white]

Bob-
In a round-about-way you just confessed about lying while talking about being honest. Interesting...

You say: "This week I was having a conversation with someone and she asked me whether I was telling her everything. And my mental response was, “Well, NO… but you couldn’t handle everything. It would make you upset and angry and frustrated at me.” So I told her, “Yep, that’s everything.” You might think I’m a freak, but we all do this all the time."

I'm somewhat confused. The honest thing to do would be to follow-up with the girl, right? I kept reading, expecting you to tell us readers what honestly came out of that "moment" (if you will) where you had a unique opportunity to be gut-honest.

On another note, in response to your perhaps rhetorical question, I say yes. Community could be that good if we spoke real truth all the time. I think that the problem that we would run into would be the grace and the gospel. To be more honest with others we would have to be real honest with ourselves and the need for Jesus. I think most of our communities suck because people suck at seeing themselves in light of the Gospel and the need for it moment after moment after moment. (At least I suck at it.) We only call people to be honest every now and then because we only believe the truth about ourselves and the gospel every now and then.

[Bob]

Comments to other peoples' comments:

Dusty: you're right about not believing the truth of the gospel all the time. And you're right about me lying while talking about honesty. I think tension makes for a good story, don't you? :)

Kendal: please explain to me how honesty and truth are different...

[Natalie]

The other night, through the course of not so great events, I realized that I had fallen prey to the labels that have been placed on me. These very thoughts that you suggest we tell others no matter how sinful they may be were tossed around four years ago in my community. Through a lot of hurt and processing, I realized that I have let myself be defined by these lables that were at one time not even true. I lived in these labels, and in fact the label became me. So, I agree when you say that we should take our identity soley from Jesus and live in his grace and truth and bask in the love he has poured into our hearts. I need to be living in the Gospel, not the labels.

However, I am having a rough time believing your main point of being honest with others and telling them our exact thoughts, even though Jesus is enough. There is a mad war raging inside of me-- the flesh and the Spirit. It seems like telling "the flirty girl" and the "geeky guy" that is my view of them is walking in the flesh not the Spirit. (I am not speaking of honesty in the context of a deep relationship). If I let the 'honesty' inside of me surface, then I would be having sex, cheating on tests, and stealing things. Sure, Jesus forgives and His grace abounds, but I now have power through the Holy Spirit. It seems like Paul addressed this in his letter to the Romans.

Maybe I've taken your thoughts out of context, but this is what was promted inside of me as I read your thoughts.

[J.T.]

Interesting thoughts, Bob. I should think about this more.

Natalie, I think Bob's saying that, in sharing those thoughts with people we allow those labels to be broken and powerless. Perhaps one scenario fitting with Bob's throughts would be if I go up to a "flirty girl" and say, "Suzie, here's what I think of you, and that's wrong, and I want to get to know who you really are". This puts the label out in the open, acknowledges my sinfulness in thinking of it, and opens the door to reconciliation and community.

I think your other examples are great things to bring before God (and other people, with discretion) as well! "God, I really want to cheat on this exam, and I know that's wrong." Our "honesty" isn't shown in acting out those thoughts, but in owning them, confessing them, and opening ourselves up to true community with God and with others.

JT

[David Johnson]

Bob,

I recently had an experience similar to that of the interns. My closest friend and I had been 'off' in our relationship because of some mysterious and unspoken tension. It came to a head in a rather pointless argument, and in the process of working through things we spoke honestly and openly about some difficult things, and our friendship is deeper and more meaningful because of it. Our friendship, which has lasted more than 15 years, has gone through a number of these truth-telling sessions, and each time it has strengthened and rendered our relationship more beautiful and precious to both of us.

However, honesty should not always equal complete transparency, and in a world that is sinful, and with a mind that is broken, such complete transparency would in most cases do much more harm than good. On one level the rift between my friend and me was not mysterious. He had gotten married a couple years ago and had changed (as married people are wont to do) and this was both threatening and irritating to me. There had been many moments prior to our conversation when what was honestly going through my mind was something along the lines of, “I don’t like you as much as I did before you got married; you’ve changed and not for the better.” But what was honestly going through my mind was not what was true, because the tension that had arisen had more to do with my insecurities and my loneliness than the changes that had taken place in him because he had gotten married. It took me a while to get there though, and I am thankful that I never gave honest voice to my thoughts. I think this might have been the distinction Natalie was making when she differentiated between “honesty” and “truth.”

dbj

[Bob]

Dave,

Sweet comment. Thanks for your existential verification that living in the light does indeed bring deeper fellowship with one another. But I am suggesting that we be honest even when what we think and feel is NOT true (which will be often, as you note, because of sin). Because only then are we really living in light of the gospel and finding our identity in Christ. If we don't, we are just shielding people from the pain and confusion that knowing the 'real us' would cause - in other words, we're being fake.

AND: Until one of you commenters explains to me how honesty and truth are different, I'm not buying that distinction.

[David Thompson]

How does this sound:

“To be completely honest, you (a co-worker) dress in a way that really accentuates the beauty of your breasts. It is wrong of me, but I want to touch your breast.” I’m just not sure she’s done the hard work to “believe the gospel radically enough” for this to be helpful.

I’m thinking, besides losing my job and a sexual harassment lawsuit, maybe I should just tell my wife what I think about my co-workers breasts. Your thoughts?

[Bob]

DT,

Okay, I admit there are some exceptions. The other one Will and I thought of was the trademark question from wife to husband: "Honey, do I look fat in this dress?"

But to answer the hypthetical dilemma you've raised, honesty with your wife would at least be honesty with someone, which would be a step closer to authentic living than where many men currently are. Agreed?

[DT]

Bob - Agreed. I think the only thing that could motivate me to that level of honesty would be love. Ironically it is under the guise of love that I resist this kind of honesty - it just wouldn't be nice. Yet the reality is I hide behind feigned niceness to protect myself, not others.

[David Johnson]

Bob,

You wrote that someone needed to explain to you how honesty and truth are different. But in the same comment you also wrote that we should "be honest even when what we think and feel is NOT true...because only then are we really living in the light of the gospel and finding our identity in Christ." I'm having trouble following this. Also, you seem to be using honesty and complete transparency interchangeably, and I'm not sure I buy that.

This is fun...

dbj

[Ryan]

Bob

I thought the same thing as Kendall initially, I think. "The truth" that Jesus was talking about was the Gospel, not telling someone you think they're a dork, right? So, I think that's the distinction: "the truth" = the gospel, whereas, "honesty" is telling the truth about...whatever.

Also, instead of saying, "I think you're a dork and I know that's wrong, so I want to get to know you," why in the world wouldn't I just say, "Hey, I'd love to get to know you more. We should hangout sometime"? (That sentence seems SO grammatically incorrect. yuck.) Why burden them with my incorrect/sinful? thoughts? Would life really be better if I walked around saying things like, "I'm looking at you lustfully," or "I think you're really ugly. Sorry."

Does that make sense?

[Bob]

Dave,

OK, you got me on that one! To use some oversimplified categories that are sure to annoy you, think of it this way: I'm using the word "truth" both objectively and subjectively. If I happen to think you're a prideful intellectual snob, that may or may not be objectively true, but if it's what I think, then it's subjectively true for me. So my honesty can reflect the TRUTH of what I actually think without being TRUE in an objective, factual sense. When Jesus "told the truth" there was no difference between the subjective and objective; but when I "tell the truth" there may indeed be a difference. So I might say, "Dave, I don't know if you're truly a prideful intellectual snob, but I just need to be honest and tell you that's (truthfully) what I'm thinking about you at this moment."

As far as honesty vs. complete transparency, Socrates might ask the question this way: Are you saying that it can be loving to NOT tell the whole truth?

[Patrick]

I think it is important to recognize an distinct characteristic of this truth Bob speaks of. He says "I think in an ideal community – one centered around the gospel of Jesus – real honesty just might be possible." Thats the key of his essay/blog/article. He is talking from the perspective of a gospel based community. Honesty in a gospel based community with dorks is a lot different than telling the software engineer at work--who may or may not know Christ-- that he is a dork. Why? Because of the gospel and grace.

The people in the world who don't know Christ will judge us. Christians may as well, but they know it is sin. Perhaps at the office and with the rest of our freinds who are not being transformed by God, it is more appropriate to focus on sin in general. I am not saying hide sins from those people. In fact we should be just as honest about our sin, especially ones against them. I think all of us would be smart enough to not say "Well, Judy, I stared at your boobs for two and a half minutes. I am sorry about that and please forgive me." But I see nothing wrong with saying "Look Judy. I have to confess that I struggle with lust. And I want to ask your forgiveness because it diminshes my view of all women, including you. I have sinned against you and God, and I hope you can forgive me having such a degrading view of yoou and your gender. It's not right." I know few men who have the integrity to say something like that.

I think honesty cannot be bad. I think if we approach it recklessly, it can be hurtful. But God has given us grace and discernment. And if the truth hurts, then we can always beg forgiveness later. I don't know about all of you, but if there is a lie, or even an unspoken truth in my heart, it devours my heart. The truth sets me free.

Patrick

[Ryan]

Patrick said:

I think all of us would be smart enough to not say "Well, Judy, I stared at your boobs for two and a half minutes. I am sorry about that and please forgive me." But I see nothing wrong with saying "Look Judy. I have to confess that I struggle with lust. And I want to ask your forgiveness because it diminshes my view of all women, including you. I have sinned against you and God, and I hope you can forgive me having such a degrading view of yoou and your gender. It's not right." I know few men who have the integrity to say something like that.

Honestly, I just don't agree with this concept. This sin is NOT her problem and can only create an awkward situation for Judy. I still feel like if I have wrong thoughts about somebody it is MY job to deal with that. I don't think that is dishonest at all.

Ryan

[d white]

Bob, you definitely opened up a can of worms here...

To Ryan:
Or would it create an incredible opportunity for you to talk to Judy about the sin in the world/flesh and the grace of God in Jesus? Awkward at first, but completely honest, thus leading to an authentic discussion about Jesus as our only hope. Heck, Judy might just end up a believer if there were an authentically true and honest Christian in her workplace.

Also, about it being "your problem to deal with the sin." How does one go about doing that? Are you suggesting the exact opposite of Bob's post, that we should bottle up our sinful patterns instead of being honest about them, especially when our sin involved others?

Dave is right--this is fun (or maybe out of hand).

[Ryan]

D White:

"Or would it create an incredible opportunity for you to talk to Judy about the sin in the world/flesh and the grace of God in Jesus? Awkward at first, but completely honest, thus leading to an authentic discussion about Jesus as our only hope. Heck, Judy might just end up a believer if there were an authentically true and honest Christian in her workplace."

In my opinion there are PLENTY of other ways to talk about our sin and need for a savior without telling a woman we lust after them.

"Also, about it being "your problem to deal with the sin." How does one go about doing that? Are you suggesting the exact opposite of Bob's post, that we should bottle up our sinful patterns instead of being honest about them, especially when our sin involved others?"

Of course not. We are told to confess our sins to each other, but it does not indicate to me that we should confess ALL of our sin to EVERYONE, ALL of the time. As a man, I believe having another man or group of men to be honest with about our sexual sins is vital.

Since we've used it as an example (perhaps we should change it?), we'll use Judy again. Poor, busty, Judy. If I am tempted to look lustfully at Judy, it is my job to recognize that and refuse to entertain that temptation because once I have, it is sin. If I'm unable to refuse it, I need to LEAVE. It is NOT her fault and I am under no obligation to go and share with her what a sinful pervert I am. To be honest, I could never see this ending in her salvation. Not to box God up or anything. We are told to FLEE sexual immorality, not discuss it with the object of our desire. Certainly, if you feel it would help, call a buddy and share your struggle and ask for prayer. By all means, NEVER let secret sin simmer.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Ryan]

Bob:

I've read a good portion of Miller's book and absolutely love it. Thanks for the suggestion. I was cracking up all the way through the first chapter.

Ryan

[Brian Onstead]

Bob,

I believe the issue is not "should I be honest" rather the issue is your judgements. I noticed that the judgements you have mentioned in your article have all been negative and based on what you observe on the surface. Most these judgements are based on what the world cares about and are not important in the kingdom of God. As a pastor, I don't believe you have time to be consumed with thoughts about who's a geek and who's flirty. I believe this leads to forming categroies such as "who's worth my time?"(who stays in my boat) and "who's not worth my time?"(who gets thrown overboard).

[Megan]

Webster's defines HONEST as: "that will not lie, cheat or steal; truthful; trustworthy....showing fairness and sincerity, straightforward, free from deceit."

1 Peter 2:22 says of Jesus, "who committed no sin, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH".
John 14:6 "Jesus said...'I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life...'"
1 Peter 2:21 "for you also have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps"

Jesus Christ is honest. He is truth. He is our example. So the first question we ought to be asking when it comes to honesty, is "How did Christ live it?" Truly, he was the most honest person that ever lived (and still lives). It's interesting to note that although honest, and without ANY deceit in His mouth, Jesus did not speak everything that He thought. His words were accurate, precise, with aim and direction, like the sword that the author of Hebrews talks about. ("For the Word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to juge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Heb. 4:12) Jesus often went on a mountain to pray early in the morning (Mark 1:35). Were his conversations with His father shared freely with all people? Were all the things the Father told him freely offered to ALL people? Jesus says in Matthew 13:11 "To you (the disciples) it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted". God has mysteries? He has thoughts that not all can hear? Does that make Him dishonest for not displaying those thoughts to all? For not explaining them and speaking every single one? Of course not. Does our honesty, therefore, depend on the fact that we "hide no thought" or that we "allow every thought to become a word"? Or is our honesty dependant upon the fact that we be worthy of trust, worthy of being talked to, depended on, leaned on, without the other fearing an attack or offense given by our words?

Jesus had much to say about the way His disciples ought to live their lives. One familiar example would be Matthew 5:7, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy." Now, if someone sins against me, my first thought, even as a Christian, is to hurt them back. Whether by withholding forgiveness, or by hating them, or by attacking their character, I would seek to bring to them the same pain their sin brought to me. That would be my "honest" response. "Blessed are those who honestly feel, or think, mercifully, for they shall receive mercy". No, it says blessed are "the merciful"--those that exercise mercy. Choice operating over and above emotion, and possibly even the mind. Choice to obey God, and honor His will. Choice to say, "God, you forgave me my trespasses, you were merciful to me. For your sake, I will be merciful to the one that sinned against me." Now, in time, my emotions and thoughts may become merciful as well. But usually, as Christians, to obey Christ and to live it out daily is a choice. Emotions and mind cannot always be depended on to follow Christ; our will always has a choice.

If I seek to obey Christ, I do not have the liberty to speak my "true" thoughts, or to act upon my "true impulses" all the time. Rather, I am to "take all thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5) Christ said, "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." If our thoughts (which are in our heart) are to be CAPTIVE (note, they are not "free") to the obedience of Christ, even moreso, should not our words (which are the overflow of our thoughts) be captive to Christ?

Concerning freedom, Peter says (1:16) "Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of Christ."

Romans 6:18 says, "having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness".

There are numerous references to "freedom from" in the Bible. Freedom FROM sin, the devil, bondage, etc. But the other side of that is being captive, or, if you prefer, being a bondslave (one who has chosen to stay with their master out of love). And it is a captivity to righteousness, of which truth and honesty are a part of. Christ, our righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21), and our example of honesty, never used words to injure others. Oh yes, He spoke in anger at times (as to the vendors in the temple), and harshly ("you white-washed tombs" was His name for the Pharisees). But what was His motive? Was it simply to be speaking what He thought, to be giving way to His "true feelings"? No way! Jesus' whole life was to "do the Father's will" (Just read a chapter or two in John to see that!). When He spoke truth, it was to turn sinners back to God, to convict, to comfort, to exhort, to encourage, to weep, to pray, to love. Our words ought to be the same. Our lives ought to be the same. Jesus was not honest because He lived according to His thoughts and emotions (although as God, I suppose He could've done it and still been perfectly honest) but He was honest because He lived and preached according to His Father's TRUTH. God is truth. Therefore, if we desire to be honest people, we ought to be concerned more about speaking the TRUTH (which is Christ) than speaking our own thoughts, no? Which means we do not tell Bobby that his name is ugly, or Mary that she has a nose like a camel. We speak the truth in love, we encourage, we correct, we sing praises to God, we meditate on Scripture. We seek to give God the glory in "WHATEVER we do and say" (Col. 3:17). If speaking the truth in love is telling John that he is the ultimate geek, can you HONESTLY say before God that you are telling John that to "bring God glory"?

And Jesus did indeed say, "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free". Is truth defined by our natural emotions and thoughts and judgements? No! Truth is a person. Honesty for a Christian is not about speaking for "ourselves" (even our Lord did not do that; Matt. 26:39). It is about speaking for the person who IS truth.

In the end, God is truth. Therefore, honesty is about revealing God. It is about allowing Him to shine in us, which is all He wants after all, that we "be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation...among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life." (Phil 2:15)

Let us let our light shine in such a way that men will see our good works and glorify our Father who is in heaven!
To HIM be the glory, in all we think, speak, and do!

[Patrick]

I got a buddy who was honest with a chica about why he didn't want to hang out the other night. She was hurt. Was it his fault? No. He was confessing sin and she did not realize it.

I think that Bob's point is that in a gospel centered community (workplace aside for now) honesty should be expected. The gospel frees us from the judgement of our brothers and sisters. this is true community. Maybe if we can be honest with our siblings first, then we can worry about being honest with the people that it is really going to upset.

[Bob]

Patrick, you continue to speak wisdom. Thanks... I can tell you've experienced a taste of the gospel-centered community I'm talking about.

[Walker]

Thanks to all of you who are commenting about the honesty post. your insight is helpful as we all try to get our mids around this and, more importantly, live it it out.

If you have not read my comment on this post (or maybe on the honesty part 2 post), please do so. I feel like some are making points to Bob about his article that, while helpful, have already been cleared up. I think it is safe to assume that Bob agrees with the clarifcations I made in my comment about his article (Bob ... speak up if you don't).

Again, I am glad you have written what you have, especially the flood of biblical references. They are insightful and a great encouragement to us all.