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October 01, 2003

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Simon

Yes. Finally something I know about, the parachurch/church dilemma. I have found similar things to Bob throughout my college experience. Apart from established believers in local churches campus ministry could not function. Yet, the people of the church could not be father away from a vision and a passion that we have.

As far as seriousness, I differ with Bob. I have encounter my more heart longings, life changes, and journeying disciples on campus. However, this is probably because I am looking for peers and they are hard to come by in a church setting. Currently I am journeying with a group of guys on campus. We call it an edge group but everyday we seek to move it more towards a mealding between a vision of community and real life. Out of that we have really started to experience Life and a freedom we have never known.

I have never been apart of something so challenging. Most people move out of community when they leave school, if they ever have be in it. It could be the American way?... From my perspective, I see way too many hurting lonley people to claim that moving out of community is a good thing. But if we have to move out of the college season, which we really need to do, than the logical and necessary place to go would be the church. All I know is that my community would not fit there currently.

I was about to go back and sensor comments I made above. Then I realized that they were all of my own experience and, while my brokenness may get in the way of writing clearly, I think that what I said is true... the community I seek would not fit in the churches I know. So do I devote my life to changing the church or to journey with people that are learning to live out of their hearts? Right now they don't exist in the same place.

J.T.

This is something I've been thinking about for a little bit now. One thought I had, maybe some of you have better insights on it than I do.

I understand that many of the parachurch organizations were started because they saw a need that local churches were, on a whole, not filling. That's fantastic, and we defintely need people to be willing to do that. But shouldn't one of the main foci of these groups be to see this need met by the local church? It seems like many of the parachurch groups are focused on their continued existance above bringing local churches along with them and helping them grow to meet the needs the parachurch is filling. What would a parachurch organization look like is it's it was dedicated to eliminating the need for itself by equipping the local church to do its job?

I've got some more thoughts on this, but they'll have to wait. It's good to hear from all of you guys again.

-JT

d white

For starters, I recognize that this very blog is a link from a "para-church" organization site, and Mr. Will Walker, thanks for the musings.

I post this comment to say this: JT is asking all of the right questions. The last two thoughts in the middle paragraph is exactly the tension that makes me beat my head against the church vs. para-church wall! I'm totally interested in the rest of the thoughts that JT could share with the Musing world (hint: JT, please continue or email me).

May I add one more thing to my comment? Obviously JT's recently posted thought on this issue made me re-read all of the other comments. Simon, honestly bro, come on! The question that you ask at the end of your comment (posted October 4, 2003) almost made me pull out my hair, except I recently shaved my head! The question about devoting your life to the church is a non-issue and an obvious answer. What greater challenge is there in church culture than to recognize the para-church vs. church (in no specific order by the way) issue and then lead the church to recognizing its faults by changing it from the inside? It is a no-brainer, especially for an influencial individual like yourself that has impact. The real question is, when are you going to pick a ministry and make it happen.

stewman

Here's a dilemma that prevents Bob's wishes from coming true. The parachurch and the church have both become more like corporations than communities...more like organizations than organisms. How do you (practically speaking) dissolve the parachurch and fold its people into service within the church? Focus on the Family, Campus Crusade, and Billy Graham's folks all have benefits packages, 403(b)s, and strategic plans to maintain. The local church has leadership structure, committees, and decision-making flowcharts. Even though parachurch staff and church staff alike would both say that it's about the mission, it's about God's glory among the peoples of the earth, I fear that it's often more about keeping our little corporation up and running. I mean, come on, jobs are at stake here...paychecks are going to be lost and prestigious positions are going to be shuffled! And, at the end of the day, we all care more about our own hides than about the glory of God. This, as little as I like it, has happened as church and parachurch alike have taken their cues from American business ideals and the American individualistic worldview more than taking their cues from the Scriptures.

Walker

Do old people talk about this? by "old" I mean people over 40. it just seems to me that this is only a very heated topic to youngsters (under 40) like us. If that is true, why is that?

Are we just zealous and idealistic? Am I going to turn 40-something and realize that this was really a non-issue? Is this discussion very "American"?

pamela

Maybe things are a wee bit different here in ireland and then again maybe not. Many of the branches of para church could not have set up survived so long or thrived as much as they have without the support of the loal churches. Which is the way i see it working. The church is like a GP doctor and the para is like a specialist in certian ares ... drugs, Aids, Homeless, students etc. They should work together playing off each others strenghs to advance Gods kingdom together. However i find myself attending a church that has avery seperatist approach and I also find myself working full time for a para church. I would not want to drain resources from the church's ministries that are already in place but i find it frustrating that even informing others in the church about the opportunity to partner with the parachurch in prayer is being blocked. There are many many question i have on this topic as in my mind i never had a concept of "church vs parachurch", which is the google that found this site but my brain always saw "church and parachurch" as a partnership under God. Any opinions would be appreciated as i now have to write a paper for my church leader on my opinion.... Pamela

Dan Barnes

I have decided I don't believe in a parachurch. There are ministries and churches. Ministries minister. Churches minister, worship, evangelize, fellowship and disciple (thanks Dr. Warren). Why call a church a parachurch because it meets on a college campus. Call it an on campus college church, offer communion once or twice a semester, and grow the kingdom. After all, isn't it about the kingdom?

samantharob

Hey guys,
Was wondering if any of you are part of any free dating sites?
Ive been researching and looking around for all the best free dating sites to join.
A lot of free dating sites are free, but you need to verify your age with your credit card which a lot
of people aren't comfortable with.
Ive found a site that lists all the free dating sites where you dont need credit card at all.
Just simply your name.. age.. email.. and your good to go!

dave bish

Its a key question for us. Some of my thoughts on it here: http://thebluefish.org/2008/07/parachurch-that-loves-local-church.html

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